“She was like the mother from heaven and she was the champion of unconditional love. She was the person that I felt like I could never live up to for my own kids.”
Kate Miller
Interview with kate
What’s your full name?
Katherine Proctor Miller
Where did you grow up?
In central Florida. In a town called Lakeland
What was the town like?
The middle of everything. It’s all I could do was wait to just get out of the middle. I mean middle class, middle everything, middle income, middle standards, values, the whole thing. The perfect American. All I wanted to do is get to an edge somewhere.
When did you leave?
The first time I left I was 17. I went with my. We were both a kind of losers in high school so we didn’t manage to get our College applications and so we had to go to community college and we didn’t want to stay home. So we went to an hour and a half away to the beach to community college. And I flocked out. All I wanted to do was party and stay high? and After two years had a 1.2 average. I was a bad student until much later when I went back to school.
When you went back home, what did that feel like?
I hated it. My parents are divorced my father left when I was 15 and he wasn’t a very good father and I won’t say violent, but he was an alcoholic. And then my mother remarried to took kids and remarried when she was 35 to a man who had custody of his three. So there were 8 of us between 16 that all moved in together. And and then so there was ten of us, six boys. My stepfather was wonderful man. I got really close to him. My kids got really close to him this grandpa. My father wasn’t so great.
I went back and then I still kept screwing everything up. Right before I was about to graduate, maybe 12 hours before, sort of ran away. Well, I took incompletes, which turned into F’s and then of course never finished them. And then I got married to a rock and roll drummer and ran away to New York City. So I married him we had a little hippie wedding. His band played, got married in the backyard. You should see the pictures. We moved to New York where he played drums and I supported him, and he was a horrible husband. It was not a Good thing. It was bad. I got divorced in two years, but went back to him shortly after that, and staying around off and on for another six years. He was violent, and I don’t hesitate to say he was violent. When I found myself in that place I didn’t tell anybody. I didn’t tell everybody until years later, when he was out of the picture.
What made you decide to tell someone?
I think I told my husband. I don’t know if he was first, I don’t even remember who was first. I remember being shocked at hearing it come out of my mouth. I don’t even remember who it was. And thinking Yeah, and realizing there’s not any reason I shouldn’t, you know? And since then I have really looked at, you know, with the whole Me Too movement that I’ve really looked at my life and realized that I didn’t really– I thought it was normal. Honestly, I thought all girls take it. Get abused, get molested at least. And it’s not a big deal.
How long did you think of it as normal? Is this recent?
I thought it was normal maybe until I met my husband. And I in fact, was almost not attracted to him because I wanted, I was used to really aggressive men. I liked rough man. And I also liked the bad boys, the ones that got you into terrible situations. And he was sweet and gentle. And I wasn’t sure, I mean I liked him, he was intriguing.
How did you meet him?
I was a bartender. He was a chef. He’d get off work and come to my bar and asked me out. I was still sort of hanging on to the other one. And I would say no, and that went on for months and months. And then some women friends, that have literally saved my life, literally said “You have to move away. Get out of here, out of this place with this guy.” And they had an opening they had a house. They had room for a roommate. I’m still friends with them. We get together three or four times a year, the four of us.
I moved back [to Florida] before I was ever even divorced. And probably it was him. He wanted to go back, but I did too. I mean my mother always said she had sand in her shoes d and I guess I did too. There’s so many things I don’t like about Florida. Yeah, yet there’s so many things I love.
What was your mom like?
Mom was– my daughter always told my mom, that she was Mema, she called her Mema, “You are a Feminist.” And my mother would laugh and say “Oh, you are so silly!” But my mom was really awesome. She, like I said she was pretty much abandoned when she was 35 and had five kids. And was living on school teacher pay. My father never paid what he was supposed to. So it was really rough for her, and she did everything for us. She was like the mother from heaven and she was the champion of unconditional love. She was the person that I felt like I could never live up to for my own kids. Really. She was amazing, my mom. Her name was Betty.
Do you know anything about the day you were born?
I know where they lived. I was born in Lakeland Regional Hospital. I don’t know much about it except that she was an ealry advocate for natural everything– she wanted to be awake and they wouldn’t let her. And she wanted to rest with me. She just wanted to be there, that’s really what was more important to her. Then she later went back to school. So my mother’s really brilliant. She became a school psychologist. She was a very smart woman, but she never really recognized how good she was.
What do you remember about learning about what sex was?
Oh. First thing, I remember that I used to climb a pole– and it felt good, masturbation. But I didn’t know what it was. And at some point, I was young, twelve maybe, my mother had a book in the house. It was a popular best seller. And there was a part in it that talked about masturbation. And I was like “Oh… that’s what that is.” And so, I went and I told her. I was- my mother was religious, she took us to Sunday school, Methodist. I grew up in a Church. I didn’t really know what it was, but I knew it was certainly bad– it had to be. So I always felt like there was something wrong with me or guilty or something. I tried to talk to my cousin one time, asked her “Do you ever have this feelings?” And she shut me down. She was like “Oh, no.” And then I also when I talked to my mother, she was very uncomfortable, obviously. And what I said was “I used to do that,” and she said “Good that you stopped, it wont hurt anything” but it might get hard for you with your future husband.” I didn’t know there was pleasure, you know? And I always felt guilty– and not just about that, but other things that I would feel guilt and torture about. So I would try to pray because they told me that Jesus would answer. Once my father left, I would pray and I figured that it was either this giant conspiracy against, or Jesus just didn’t like me. So fuck it. I mean, I wrote a poem called “Two Weeks in November,” because my father left, I don’t know exactly the date, but it was about two weeks before Kennedy was shot, and that just toppled my whole world. Because I felt like all became intertwined. My mother us watching the TV, the funeral of Kennedy. My mother being left, it all became one thing. And so in my mind, men were not too trusted– they left, they died, women were left with children. I was in sixth grade, we were doing drills, because of the Cuban crisis. We went home, we were in Florida, we had drills in school – we had to go home and hide and find a place in the room, in the closet, as if that was going to save us. And I remember other kids laughing, thinking it was great, “We’re out of school,” and I was terrified. We were very seriously terrified. I mean, I had big time anxiety until I was 30 about nuclear annihilation. And so, why not just seek alternative ways to live, why not do whatever.
What about your marriage?
I got married when I was 29, to Fred, he was a good guy, and we could make a life, and shared some of my values. He had been living in a Cameo when I met him. We shared a lot of values, but he wasn’t violent, he wasn’t mean. He claims to this day that he fell in love the minute he saw me. His whole roommates say that it was true. He told them “I’m going to marry that girl.” And he’s been good to me, its been 37 years. I always wanted kids you know, always. I didn’t want them early, I was really careful not to get pregnant. I didn’t want to be pregnant before I was ready. I didn’t want to face that I would have to have an abortion Because I would’ve, and didn’t want to have to do it, I didnt want to. So I was really careful, even in the days where free love was everything. I always took the pill. Then with Fred it felt okay. I mean I didn’t know he was really scared to deat,h he was like “No, if you want…” And I said let’s just don’t do anything, I won’t take anything and we’ll see. And then I got pregnant in a month. The minute I stopped I got pregnant. And it happened again four years later and we said “Well, I don’t know if I want another one, let’s just stop and we’ll see.” I had a miscarriage first before Fred. And it was probably a good thing because at the time, we were living off money he was making from farming. IAt the miscarriage, I remember that being pregnant I was so happy, I was so happy. Even though I didn’t know how that happened. I just felt really connected to –I don’t know if I invented it–I felt like I could feel the child. Then I communicated and then I let myself love it. And I know that when I got pregnant the second time, I wouldn’t do that, I was just very hesitant to let myself. I’m always really happy to be pregnant, I didn’t let that just get in there too quick.
What’s what’s having a kid like?
Well, It’s the kind of falling in love you don’t know can happen, can be possible. It’s something, I know it’s a little fashioned now, but it’s something I would say “Don’t miss it if you can help it it.” It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done, and the best thing. And I was a mother earth– I had breastfed till both my kids were three. And we had one of those family beds where our kinds would always climb in. I wanted to have a home birth– we were down to that earth. I wanted to have a home birth. Last minute we decided not to, and decided to seen a midwife. Actually, she was married to an OBGYN and so officially I had seen him a few times, not as regular as her. And last minute, I don’t know I think we chickened out, we finally gave up on that idea. That’s what I wanted. I was two weeks late, I was really, really gigantic– I gained 50 pounds. It was huge. Yeah, well we went and I went into two weeks over the due day, and I went to the hospital. They said “Oh, You might as well Come back later, it’s a long time.” We went to the movies, it was a really long one, liked three hours. And I took a pillow, it was huge, and people were looking at me like I mean, they didn’t know but yeah, I just looked so ready. And then when I got to the hospital, and we went like three times, the third time they said well, you’re not going anywhere your water broke. I was doing everything I thought I was supposed to do but the pain was more intense than I expected, even though I had trained and everything. So they decided to put a monitor on me, and everything wasn’t okay. I had a placental abruption. The kind of birthday that in the old days killed mothers and babies. Really bad. So Fred was already suited up to be with me, and they left him in the hallway. “You have to go in now.” It was an emergency. And I didn’t care as long as they put me out “Now”, because that was a pain I never imagined. It was like when you have pains you have peaks, there’s a peak and then it goes down. Well, I couldn’t feel like it was going back down. It’s a state. So, then I had her and then we went home. And then I think I got sick. I started having an infection, I think it was ovarian, and so I had to go back to the hospital. I lost so much blood so they had to give me blood. I lost so much blood. My mother and my daughter had to stay with me, because I was trying to breastfeed. So she stayed in the room with me, they gave her a bed and they gave us a a crib, and stayed there. And then we got home again and she ran a skylight. It was okay, turned out okay, but they did spinal taps. Oh, it was hell. And it turned out okay. She had probably picked up the same infection from me. That was ten days or so in the hospital. That really left me traumatized. I was afraid for anyone to touch her. Really, really protective. And then I didn’t want any more babies. It took me four years to even allow that idea in my head. She was seeing perfect and we loved loved it. It was great. It was easy, you know. We had it all planned. He would get up at night feed her so I could sleep through. Much easier with my son. I had a planned C section. It was a win It came two weeks early. It was easy.
Do you want to tell me about your art a little bit? When did you start thinking of yourself as a artist?
Always. Always. I always knew– I I don’t know. I couldn’t play games. I didn’t run around and they made me play like softball and stuff. I was like, I’m gonna treat Ladybugs instead. You know, just be like, where’s Katie? And then I would be up in the orange tree back in the back of the field. My mother always said I always wanted to draw something. I painted her walls. And she was fine with it. She was cool. And she sent me to an art class when I was six and I never went back. The teacher said that you could make squirrels out of circles and squirrels were not made out of circles. It made me mad. I thought this teacher was an idiot.
And what do you make art about now?
Right now I’m in a transition. It’s hard to say what I make art about. I mean, the biggest sense I’ve always made art about my life. You know, grad school. I made art about my leaving. I taught kids. I started grad school. I had to leave them and they were very rural, poor, pathetic kids. And I felt a lot of guilt. I made art about them. I made art about that. Everything’s always been about how I exist, whether or not exist. It’s always about relationships, about relations to nature, to people. And how does that work, and why am I so vulnerable and so anxious. I mean, I was this person that was always on the for edge of existential crisis, always. And yet I came across as happy, care free. Everyone thinks that. Everyone. My husband says that’s what he fell for. A smile. And that was the life I lived. But I was always, inside somewhere, there was a lot of angst. And a lot of I was hurt. I was hurt young by my father, by every man I ever met. Until my husband. I was raped. I was molested. I was abused. And I didn’t even know, that it was weird. But because of it, it made me. I must, I’m a synthesisiac, which means you feel more. I feel more than I should. If a person, especially if I’m close to them– if my kid comes to me and has a problem, I can’t do the things I need to do in my life. Because it’s so, it goes so deeply into me.
I mean, teaching elementary school. Took me to the point of where I hada ll these foster kids, I got legal permission to go pick them up because they lived together. I would bring them to my house. And as I got into it, we got so deeply involved with them. It was horrible. It was really heartbreaking. And I couldn’t do that, like, save the world. So college age was better because people are a little more capable. But I always find, they always find me. And I can’t. It was really hard for me to set those boundaries. Feel things. And I have intuition that’s kind of scary. Seriously, I’ve had situations where– I met this guy where Fred worked one time. And then when everybody was like, “you’re gonn alove this guy. This guy is great.” He comes from New Zealand. I met Skye– just felt something that was evilJust wrong. I told Fred, “I’m never gonna be around that guy. Ever.” And he told his boss, and we were new there. And he said, “You don’t know me, you don’t know my wife, but I know my wife. And she says, something’s wrong with this guy. I’m just telling you, you can laugh at it or whatever, but I’m just telling you, she’s usually right. She’s usually right.” In the middle of the summer, they came in the middle of the night and sent him back to New Zealand because he was hitting on 14-year-old girls. He had kiddie porn on his computer. I didn’t know that. Right, I never knew that. I just felt it. And that’s happened to me too many times. Too many times. I feel things.
Did you learn to trust it?
Oh, I trust it. Yeah. Sometimes it doesn’t work. Sometimes I’ve been my own personal belief system. It only works if you’re doing okay. You’re clear. Because a lot of things can get in its way. If you have heavy, you’ve got some heavy emotion or you’re angry or you’re not looking. You’re not paying any attention. You don’t get it, but if you’re clear, you’re going to feel, I mean, at least something you’re going to feel. I think everybody can doit. You’ve got to touch with it.
What brings you joy now?
There are moments of creative work. Either writing or painting. There are only moments that I feel higher than ever. I just lose myself. But that’s rare. It’s hard to reach. But there’s times. And that is probably the reason I make art. Because those moments are great. And the other thing that brings me joy, my kids. My kids. Seeing them succeed or be really happy and having a really close marriage relationship. Doesn’t always– sometimes it sucks, but you know. But I can’t live without him. I think that’s so wrong. But I still don’t know if I could.
We moved to the beach because a true love of the water . I lived in the Keys for 10 years. I loved that. But now I feel different. I still love the beach, but I see it differently. It’s the hurricanes. It’s not just our toy, it’s not just there for us to say, “Oh, we live by the beach and enjoy looking at it. Isn’t it beautiful?” It’s got the power of existence in it. And we don’t know what we’re doing. You know what I’m saying? Water.
Are you in the process of moving?
We thought about it, but practical reasons it’s really hard for us to get up and go. And I don’t think either one of us know where we want to go– but we love our house. If we can make it work again, even for a while, we stay. So we’ve been in the process of rebuilding for two years.
Tell me about a woman who helped you.
I have two people. The first one is Renee Waterson. She was a professor who was my guru. She could see your work, see who you needed to look up. She was wonderful. She was so intuitive. And she just helped me a lot of ways with my work. She was amazing. And my best friend Diana, who I worked for at the bar and basically pulled me out of that crappy trailer where I was. She saved my life. She said, “You have to leave”. And I knew I had to leave, but I couldn’t leave. And she didn’t know everything. I never told anybody. But she knew how bad it was. She knew it was a bad situation. She and her two roommates were also very close friends who really saved my life.
What is menopause like?
It Sucks. First, you start to get uncomfortable with your own body, with your skin. Everything is fucked up. You get hot flashes, and you can’t sleep, and you hormonal imbalance so you start losing it or crying or just get crazy. And then if you go to doctors, they try this, they try that. It’s a lot up and down and craziness follows. And nobody wants to get past the point where, at least for nature, you’re done. At least that in a natural way, they’re done with you. Doesn’t happen to men, but you’re biological function is over, or so it seems like that. But since, most of the symptoms are gone.
How did you learn about it?
So, at some point I started going to doctors, they were like, “Oh, it’s early menopause, I’ll give you a pill.” Pills don’t make you feel better, pills have side effects.
And do you feel like people talk about it do you feel like you talk to your friends about it?
Yeah. I do, but maybe other people don’t. I think a lot of people are like, you know, you just don’t want to be old. I’ll tell you, that being older is a shock. You don’t know your older. You don’t realize your older. You feel like you’re the same person, and then you’re looking in the mirror and–somebody takes a picture, and you’re like “What the hell?! When did that happened?” It sounds like a joke, but it’s shocking. And then you start to have pains and little problems you haven’t had before. You still feel like you could be just as vibrant, but you can’t. And the other thing that happens when you get to be at least as old as I am, you become invisible to a degree. When I first got here, I walked in this morning, and people were looking past me. There was an old lady in there and they were looking for another, vibrant exciting artist. And I don’t look that part. I get it. I get it. I understand it. I don’t blame anybody. And after a while, that was great, because I had to sit down by somebody, I talked and they would engage. And then they would say “Okay, she’s somebody.” But you do disappear. It’s a strange phenomenon to feel like, it isn’t that you’re invisible, it’s that they don’t think you’re valued. It’s the reason I let my hair grow, and get long . Because it’s stupid. I just want to be who I am.
What about something you’re looking forward towhen you think about the future?
I hope I get a grandchild. I hope I do. And not just for me. I hope my daughter has a kid. Because I hope she gets to know that joy. She doesn’t know right now, but she’s 35 and not sure she wants one. And don’t want her to have a kid for me. But I just know it would be something that I would like her to have if she could, if she can. If she can. I know my son will have kids. I know he wants to. He wants to. And I know she wants to have kids. Although right now she’s terrified because she assisted her sister and it was terrifying to her, but she’s only 26.
My daughter’s a kick-ass lawyer in New York. My daughter’s the director of advocacy for the NYCLU. She’s involved in everything that counts. And my son is a wildlife officer for the state. And the only thing he cares about is the oceanHe is out of the boat most days. He loves the research in Florid. He grew up in the Keys. We lived in the Keys with him. But my daughter was in college. He was in middle school. And we lived in a houseboat. Which was fantastic. We lived for eight months, we lived off the grid on an island. We had to get there by boat. [We did it] because it seemed fantastic. We had a boat. We used to go fishing. We went out all the time fishing and just boating. And we saw this island. And there were a few houses on it. And I always was fascinated by it. I heard these ladies talking one day. This woman was talking about how she had to get out of there, because she was renting and there were critters. There were mice and rats and racoons I found out about it and called about the rental. And my son used to get in his boat at 14. His own boat. And drive the boat through the canal, and go to his school friend’s doc and get in the school bus. It’s pretty funny. I loved living on that island. We had to take everything with us. Water. You know, we had propane refrigeration. Everything was just cool as hell to be off the grid. I got so close to the natural flow. Because you had to know the tides. You had to know the moon. You had to know how early to get back to the dock. Because it would get too dark, and if you didn’t know the tides, you couldn’t get back into the dock. You had to really live with the natural sort of little things. It was fantastic. And even clothes were optional because nobody lived out there. It was amazing. My son would go diving and bring in lobster. I mean it sounds like daylight. But it was really hard. Really hard. Because you had to carry everything out. I mean it was very rustic. And we had this deck that every morning my husband was working at.
What advice would you give to your 30 year old self?
To first find myself. Get inside. Find out who that is before everyone else tries to do it. You are somebody that men don’t have to like to be fine. It took me a long time to figure that out. I went through a lot to get to that.
Kate Miller
Florida, United States
The Wise Women Project 